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Најстаријих град у Немачкој је Триер

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trier

Аccording to the legendarium recorded in the 12th-century Gesta Treverorum, the city was founded by an eponymous otherwise unrecorded Trebeta, an Assyrian prince, placing the city's founding legend centuries before and independently of ancient Rome: a medieval inscription on the façade of the Red House in Trier market,

ANTE ROMAM TREVIRIS STETIT ANNIS MILLE TRECENTIS.
PERSTET ET ÆTERNA PACE FRVATVR. AMEN.
"Thirteen hundred years before Rome, Trier stood / may it stand on and enjoy eternal peace, amen," reflects the proud city tradition. Further embroidery in the monkish Gesta made of Trebeta the son of Ninus, a "King of Assyria" imagined by the ancient Greeks, by a wife prior to his marriage to the equally non-historical Queen Semiramis. His stepmother, Semiramis, despised him and when she took over the kingdom after the death of his father, Ninus, Trebeta left Assyria and went to Europe. After wandering for a time, he led a group of colonizers to the site of Trier.[citation needed] Upon his death, his body was cremated on Petrisberg by the people of Trier. The image of "Trebeta" became an icon of the city during the Middle Ages.

In historical time, the Roman Empire subdued the Treveri in the 1st century BCE and established Augusta Treverorum (Lit: August (Regal, noble) [City] of the Treveri) in 30 BC. The name is likely to be taken from the title Augustus held by the Princeps or head of state at the time, Augustus Caesar. The city later became the capital of the Roman province of Gallia Belgica, as well as the Roman prefecture of Gaul. In the 4th century AD, Trier was one of the five biggest cities in the known world with a population of about 70,000 - 80,000 or perhaps up to 100,000.[4][5][6][7] The Porta Nigra is counted among the Roman architecture of the city. A residence of the Western Roman Emperor, Roman Trier was the birthplace of Saint Ambrose. Sometime between 395 and 418 the Roman administration moved the staff of Praetorian Prefecture from the city to Arles. The city continued to be inhabited, but was not as prosperous as before, because of the absence of 2,000 staff members of the Prefecture and military. However, the city remained the seat of a governor and had state factories for the production of ballistae and armor, and a wool mill for uniforms for the troops, clothing for the civil service and high-quality garments for the Court. Northern Gaul was held by the Romans along a line from north of Cologne to the coast at Boulogne through what is today southern Belgium until 460. South of this line, Roman control was firm, as evidenced by the continuing operation of the imperial arms factory at Amiens.

Према на легендариум забележен у 12. веку Геста Треверорум, град је основан од стране истоимене иначе нерегистровани Требета, као асирске принца, постављање овог града оснивање легенде векова пре и независно од древног Рима: средњовековни натпис на фасади Црвеног Кућа у Триер тржишту,

АНТЕ РОМАМ ТРЕВИРИС СТЕТИТ АННИС МИЛЛЕ ТРЕЦЕНТИС.
ПЕРСТЕТ ЕТ Аетерна ПССЕ ФРВАТВР. АМИН.

"Тринаест стотина година пре Рима, Трир стајао / може да стоји на и уживати вечни мир, амин," одражава поносан град традицију. Даље вез у монашки Геста направљен од Требета сина Нинус, "краљ Асирије" замисли од старих Грка, од супруге пре његовог брака са једнако не-историјског краљице Семирамис. Његова маћеха, Семирамида, презре га и када је преузео краљевство после смрти свог оца, Нинус, Требета лево Асирију и отишао у Европу. После лутања за време, он је водио групу колонизатора на месту Триер [цитат потребан] Након његове смрти., Његово тело је кремиран на Петрисберг од стране народа Триер.Имиџ "Требета" постала икона града током средњег века.

У историјском времену, Римско царство се покори Тревери у 1. веку пре нове ере и основана Аугуста Треверорум (лит: август (Регал, племениту) [Град] од Тревери) у 30. пне.Име је вероватно да ће се узети из наслова Августа одржан од Принцепс или шефа државе у време Цезара Августа,.Град је касније постао главни град римске провинције Галлиа Белгица, као и римски префектура Галије. У 4. веку, Трир је био један од пет највећих градова у познатом свету, са популацијом од око 70.000 - 80.000 или можда и до 100.000 [4] [5] [6] [7] Порта Нигра је убројан.Римска архитектура града.Пребивалиште Западног римског цара, римског Трир је родно место Светог Амбросе. Негде између 395. и 418. римски администрација преселио особље Преторијанску Префектура из града да Арл.Град наставља да буде насељен, али није био као напредан као и раније, због непостојања 2.000 чланова особља Префектуре и војске. Међутим, град је остао седиште гувернера и имао државне фабрике за производњу баллистае и оклопа, и вуне млин за униформе за војску, одећу за јавне службе и високо-квалитетне хаљине за суд. Северна Галија одржан Римљани дуж линије из северно од Келна до обале на Боулогне кроз оно што је данас јужни Белгија до 460. Југу ове линије, римски контрола је фирма, што доказује континуираним радом фабрике царске оружја у Амијен.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninus

Ninus from Guillaume Rouillé's Promptuarii Iconum Insigniorum
Ninus (Greek: Νίνος), according to Greek historians writing in the Hellenistic period and later, was accepted as the eponymous founder of Nineveh (also called Νίνου πόλις "city of Ninus" in Greek), ancient capital of Assyria. His name is not attested on the Assyrian King List or in any cuneiform literature; he does not seem to represent any one personage known to modern history, and is more likely a conflation of several real and/or fictional figures of antiquity, as seen to the Greeks through the mists of time.

Нинус из Гуиллауме Роуилле је Промптуарии Ицонум Инсигниорум
Нинус (грчки: Νινος), према грчким историчарима који пишу у хеленистичког периода и касније, била прихваћена као истоименој оснивача Ниниве (такође назива Νινου πολις "град Нинус" на грчком), древна престоница Асирије. Његово име се не сведочи на асирске краља листи или у било клинастог литератури; он не изгледа да представља било једно личност познату у модерној историји, и више је вероватно конфлацију неколико стварних и / или измишљеним ликовима антике, као што се види на Грцима кроз магле времена.

Contents [hide]
1 Legendary career in Hellenic historiography
2 Identifications
3 Historicity
4 In culture
5 Sources
Legendary career in Hellenic historiography[edit]
Many early accomplishments are attributed to him, such as training the first hunting dogs, and taming horses for riding[citation needed]. For this accomplishment, he is sometimes represented in Greek mythology as a centaur.


Садржај [сакриј]
1 Легендарни каријера у Хеллениц историографији
2 Идентифицатионс
3 историчности
4 У култури
5 Извори
Легендарни каријера у историографији Грчке [уреди]
Многи рани успеси се приписују њему, као што су обука првих ловачких паса, а кроћење коња за јахање [цитат потребан]. За овај достигнућа, он је понекад заступљена у грчкој митологији као кентаур.

The figures of King Ninus and Queen Semiramis first appear in the history of Persia written by Ctesias of Cnidus (c. 400 BC), who claimed, as court physician to Artaxerxes II, to have access to the royal historical records.[1] Ctesias' account was later expanded on by Diodorus Siculus. Ninus continued to be mentioned by European historians (e.g. Alfred the Great), even up until knowledge of cuneiform enabled a more precise reconstruction of Assyrian and Babylonian history from the mid 19th century onwards.


Бројке краља и краљице Семирамис Нинус прво појављују у историји Персије коју је написао Цтесиас од Цнидус (око 400 пне), који је тврдио, као дворски лекар Артаксеркса ИИ на, да имају приступ краљевским историјским записима [1] Цтесиас. 'налог је касније проширен на по Диодор Сицулус. Нинус је наставио да се помиње по европским историчари (нпр. Алфред Велики), чак до знања Цунеиформ омогућити прецизнију реконструкцију асирске и вавилонске историје од средине 19. века па надаље.


He was said to have been the son of Belus or Bel, a name that may represent a Semitic title such as Ba'al, "lord". According to Castor of Rhodes (apud Syncellus p. 167), his reign lasted 52 years, its commencement falling in 2189 BC according to Ctesias. He was reputed to have conquered the whole of western Asia in 17 years with the help of Ariaeus, king of Arabia, and to have founded the first empire, defeating the legendary kings Barzanes of Armenia (whom he spared) and Pharnus of Medea (whom he had crucified).

Он је рекао да је био син Белус или Бел, именом које може представљати семитске титулу као што Ба'ал "Господе". Према Кастор Родос (апуд Синцеллус стр. 167), његова владавина је трајала 52 година, њен почетак пада у 2189 пне по Цтесиас. Он је репутацију да су освојили цео западне Азије у 17 година уз помоћ Ариаеус, краља Арабије, и да су основали прву империју, поразио легендарне краљева Барзанес Јерменије (којег је поштедео) и Пхарнус Медеа (кога он је разапет).

Ninus' Empire according to Diodoros
As the story goes, Ninus, having conquered all neighboring Asian countries apart from India and Bactriana, then made war on Oxyartes, king of Bactriana, with an army of nearly two million, taking all but the capital, Bactra. During the siege of Bactra, he met Semiramis, the wife of one of his officers, Onnes, whom he took from her husband and married. The fruit of the marriage was Ninyas, said to have succeeded Ninus.

Ctesias (as known from Diodorus) also related that after the death of Ninus, his widow Semiramis, who was rumored to have murdered Ninus, erected to him a temple-tomb, 9 stadia high and 10 stadia broad, near Babylon, where the story of Pyramus and Thisbe (Πύραμος; Θίσβη) was later based. She was further said to have made war on the last remaining independent monarch in Asia, king Stabrobates of India, but was defeated and wounded, abdicating in favour of her son Ninyas.

Нинус 'империја према Диодорос
Како прича иде, Нинус, пошто је освојио све суседне азијске земље осим Индије и Бацтриана, онда је рат на Окиартес, краља Бацтриана, са војском од скоро два милиона, узимајући све осим главног, Бацтра. Током опсаде Бацтра, срео Семирамис, супруга једног од његових официра, Оннес, кога је преузео од свог мужа и удала.Плод брака био Ниниас, рекао је да су успели Нинус.

Цтесиас (као што је познато из Диодор) такође се односе да након смрти, његова удовица Нинус Семирамида, која је гласине да је убијен Нинус, подигнут њему храм-гробница, 9 стадионе висок и широк 10 стадиона, у близини Вавилона, где прича од Пирамус и Тхисбе (Πυραμος; Θισβη) је касније заснована. Она је даље рекла да су направили рат и последње независне монарха у Азији, краља Стабробатес Индије, али је поражен и рањен, одрицањем у корист свог сина Ниниас.

Identifications[edit]
A number of historians, beginning with the Roman Cephalion (c. AD 120) asserted that Ninus' opponent, the king of Bactria, was actually Zoroaster (or first of several to bear this name), rather than Oxyartes.


Идентификације [уреди]
Број историчара, почев од римског Цепхалион (око 120 АД), тврди да је Нинус 'противник, краљ Бацтриа, био је заправо Зороастер (или први од неколико да носи ово име), него Окиартес.


Ninus was first identified in the Recognitions (part of Clementine literature) with the biblical Nimrod, who, the author says, taught the Persians to worship fire. In many modern interpretations of the Hebrew text of Genesis 10, it is Nimrod, the son of Cush, who founded Nineveh; other translations (e.g., the KJV) render the same Torah verse as naming Ashur (Assyria), son of Shem, as the founder of Nineveh.

More recently, the identification in Recognitions of Nimrod with Ninus (and also with Zoroaster, as in Homilies) formed a major part of Alexander Hislop's thesis in the 19th century tract The Two Babylons.

Идентификације
Број историчара, почев од римског Цепхалион (око 120 АД), тврди да је Нинус 'противник, краљ Бацтриа, био је заправо Зороастер (или први од неколико да носи ово име), него Окиартес.

Нинус је први пут идентификован у признања (део Цлементине литературе) са библијским Нимрода, који, аутор каже, научио Персијанце да обожавају ватру. У многим модерним интерпретацијама хебрејског текста Постања 10, то је Нимрод, син Хус, који је основао Нинива; други преводи (нпр., КЈВ) доноси исту Тора стих као именовање Асхур (асирски), сина Сима, као оснивач Ниниве.

Још недавно, идентификација у признања Нимрода са Нинус (и такође са Зороастер, као у Омилија) формирао велики део Алекандер Хислоп тезе у веку тракту 19. Два Вавилона.

Historicity[edit]
The decipherment of a vast quantity of Cuneiform texts has allowed modern Assyriologists to piece together a more accurate history of Sumer, Akkad, Assyria, Babylonia and Chaldea. Ninus is not attested in any of the extensive king lists compiled by the Mesopotamians themselves, nor mentioned in any Mesopotamian literature, and it is highly likely that this Hellenic creation was inspired by the deeds of one or more real kings of Assyria, or Assyro-Babylonian mythology. Similarly, the Biblical character of Nimrod is not attested anywhere in Assyrian, Babylonian, Akkadian or Sumerian literature or king lists, but is believed by many scholars to have been inspired by one or more real kings, the most likely being Tukulti-Ninurta I of Assyria who ruled the Middle Assyrian Empire during the 13th century BC, or the Assyrian war god Ninurta. An Assyrian queen Shammuramat is known to be historical, and for five years from 810 BC ruled the Neo-Assyrian Empire as regent for her son Adad-nirari III, and had been the wife of Shamshi-Adad V, The later Hellenic myths surrounding Semiramis are considered by some[who?] to be inspired by the novelty of a woman ruling such an empire. Another opinion holds that Shamurammat could have been a namesake of an earlier Semiramis, and not necessarily the inspiration for her.

Историчност [уреди]
Дешифровање за огроман број текстова је дозвољена Цунеиформ модерни Ассириологистс да склопе прецизнију историју Сумер, Акада, Асирије, Вавилона и халдејске. Нинус није потврђено ни у једном од опширних кинг листа саставља од стране Месопотамци себе, нити се помиње у литератури било Месопотамије, а врло је вероватно да је овај хеленски стварање је инспирисан делима једног или више стварних краљева Асирије, или Ассиро-Вавилонски митологија. Слично томе, библијски карактер Нимрода није потврђено нигде у Асираца, вавилонској, Аккадиан или сумерске књижевности или кинг листама, али се верује од стране многих научника да су инспирисани једним или више стварних краљевима, највероватнији будући Тукулти-Нинурта И Асирија који је владао на Блиском асирске империје током 13. века пре нове ере, или асирске рата бог Нинурта.Асирски краљица Схаммурамат се зна да је историјска, а за пет година од 810 пне владао нео-асирске империје као регент за сина Адад-нирари ИИИ, а била супруга Схамсхи-Адад В, касније хеленских митова околних Семирамис Неки сматрају да су [ко?] да буде инспирисан новина жене владајуће такву империју. Други мишљење сматра да Схамураммат могао бити имењак раније Семирамида, а не нужно инспирација за њу.


In culture[edit]
Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream has the story of Pyramus and Thisbe as a play-within-a-play. The actors constantly mispronounce the location "Ninus' Tomb" as "Ninny's Tomb," though they are corrected initially, and in vain, by "director" Peter Quince.

The story of Ninus and Semiramis is taken up in a different form in a 1st-century AD Hellenistic romance called the Ninus Romance, the Novel of Ninus and Semiramis, or the Ninus Fragments.[2] A scene from it is perhaps depicted in mosaics from Antioch on the Orontes[3]

У култури [уреди]
Шекспиров Сан летње ноћи има причу о Пирамус и Тхисбе као плеј-у-једном-плеј. Глумци стално погрешно изговорити локацију "Нинус 'Томб" као "будала гроба", иако су у почетку исправио, и узалуд, тако да "директор" Петар Куинце.

Прича о Нинус и Семирамида се размути у другачијем облику у АД хеленистичке романтику 1. века зове Нинус романтику, роман Нинус и Семирамида, или је Нинус Фрагменти. [2] сцена из ње је можда описан у мозаицима из Антиохије на Оронтес [3]


Sources[edit]
Chisholm, Hugh, ed. (1911). "Ninus". Encyclopædia Britannica (11th ed.). Cambridge University Press.
Public Domain This article incorporates text from a publication now in the public domain: Chisholm, Hugh, ed. (1911). Encyclopædia Britannica (11th ed.). Cambridge University Press.
Full account in Diodorus
Jump up ^ "Like a Bird in a Cage": The Invasion of Sennacherib, Lester L. Grabbe (2003), p. 121-122
Jump up ^ Daphnis and Chloe. Love Romances and Poetical Fragments. Fragments of the Ninus Romance, Loeb Classical Library ISBN 0-674-99076-5
Jump up ^ Doro Levi, "The Novel of Ninus and Semiramis" Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society 87:5, Papers on Archaeology, Ecology, Ethnology, History, Paleontology, Physics, and Physiology (May 5, 1944), pp. 420-428

Извори [уреди]
  Цхисхолм, Хју, ур. (1911). "Нинус". Енциклопедија Британика (11тх ед.). Цамбридге Университи Пресс.
Бесплатне Овај чланак садржи текст из публикације сада у јавном домену: Цхисхолм, Хугх, ед. (1911). Енциклопедија Британика (11тх ед.). Цамбридге Университи Пресс.
Пуно рачун у Диодор
Скочите ^ "Као птица у кавезу": најезде Сенахирима, Лестера Л. Грабеа (2003), стр. 121-122
Скочите ^ Дапхнис и Клои. Љубав Романсе и поетско фрагмената. Фрагменти Нинус Романце, Лоеб Цлассицал Либрари ИСБН 0-674-99076-5
Скочите ^ Доро Левија, "Роман о Нинус и Семирамис" Процеедингс оф тхе Америцан филозофског друштва 87:5, Радови на археологију, екологија, етнологија, историја, палеонтологија, физика, физиологија и (5 мај, 1944), стр 420 -428


Нино Белов
Из Википедије, слободне енциклопедије


Нино Белов
Нино Белов (стгрч. Νίνος του Βηλον = Нино син Белов) је према Херодоту и Диодору са Сицилије митски оснивач Асирског царства, градитељ Ниниве, и син бога Бела.[1]

Личности цара Нина и краљице Семирамиде први пут се појављују у историји Персије коју је написао Ктезије са Книда, који је тврдио, као дворски лекар Артаксеркса II, да има приступ краљевским историјским записима. Ктезијеве тврдње су касније биле проширене од стране Диодора са Сицилије. Нина су касније наставили да помињу европски историчари (нпр. Алфред Велики), због све већег знања клинастог писма које је омогућило прецизнију реконструкцију асирске историје у 19. веку.

На основу античких митова Нино је био син бога Бела[2], назив који може представљати семитске титуле као нпр. "Ba'al", што би се превело као „господар“. Како и за Нина тако и за Бела египатска и феничка митологија не зна за овог бога те ни за његове потомке тако и на ништа што би припомињало на овакве митове[2], Према Кастору са Родоса, његова владавина је трајала 52 године, а почела је да слаби 2189. године п. н. е. како каже Ктезије. Познат је по томе што је освојио целу западну Азију за 17 година уз помоћ Арија, краља Арабије, и да је основао прво светско царство, поразивши друге краљеве из легенди, Барзана из Јерменије (којег је поштедео) и Фарна из Медије (којег је разапео).



Ниново царство према Диодору са Сицилије
Како прича каже, Нино је освојио све околне азијске земље осим Индију и Бактрију, затим је ратовао са Оксартом, краљем Бактрије, са војском од близу 2 милиона војника, освојивши све осим престоницу. Током опсаде Бактрије срео је Семирамиду, супругу једног од његових генерала, Онеја, коју је отео и узео за своју жену.

Нино је први пут идентификован у делу Клементинске литературе са библијским Небродом, који је, како аутор каже, натерао Персијанце да обожавају ватру. У многим модерним интерпретацијама хебрејских списа о Постању 10, Нимрод је, син Куша, основао Ниниву. Ово је такође непотпуно зато што други преводи наводе Асура, сина Сема, за оснивача Ниниве.

У скорије време, поистовећивање Нимрода са Нином, сачињава велики део тезе Александра Хислопа у 19. веку у делу Два Вавилона.

Ктезије је такође истакао да после Нинове смрти, његова жена Семирамида, која је била оптужена да је изазвала, подигла му је храм-гробницу 9 стадиона високу и 10 стадиона широку (стадион је била мера за дужину у Античкој Грчкој), у близини Вавилона[тражи се извор од 03. 2011.], где је прича о Пираму и Тизби касније базирана. Семирамида је касније, како се каже, ратовала са последњим независним монархом Азије, краљем Стабробатом из Индије, али је била поражена.

Извори[уреди]
^ в. „Нино“ у: Д. Срејовић, А. Цермановић-Кузмановић, Речник грчке и римске митологије, Београд 2004, 290 (COBISS)
^ а б V. Zamarovský, Bohové a hrdinové antických bájí, Mlada fronta, Praha 1965
Литература[уреди]
Vojtěch Zamarovský, Bohové a hrdinové antických bájí, Mlada fronta, Praha 1965- "Ninos", стр. 227 и "Bélos", стр. 70

Jeremiiju bih dopunio.Starosedeoci na podrucju Ercegovine bili su Luzani , pleme koje ima direktnu vezu sa Luzickim Srbima .Sve do 15.og veka nije ni bilo pomena crnogorskim bratstvima .Mislim na podrucje Zete. Postojala je od 9 og veka tzv Lusca zupa.Ime je dobila po raji koja je tu zivela.Luzanima.Mnogi toponimi imaju veze sa Luzanima:Pluzani,Uzice ili Luzice,Sumadija ili Luganija i sl.Stefan Nemanja je Luzanin.Posle Kosovskog boja nastao je pravi haos.Srbi su isli na Srbe,ili su se klali,......

Не бих рекао да су Немањићи наследнике Лузичким Срби.....зашто су Лузички Срби дирекни наследнике Владари Срба.....

А спекулирам у та доба да су Немањићи.....били наследнике те владари......

Што је овде најбитно је како је империје Рим је створен!
Стара европска култура
http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.co.uk...blade.html

Понедељак, 17. март 2014

Народ сечива


Мач, нож је оружје које је дефинисано бронзаног и гвозденог доба. Пре бронзаног и гвозденог су измислили, није било начина да се дуге, танке, флексибилне оштрице, која би се могла користити као оружје.Проналазак бронзаног и касније гвожђа променио све ово, а ми одједном видимо појаву ратничке касте, војну елиту, која ће на крају владати светом од Атлантика до Пацифика.

Као и сваки други објекат, оружје су такође део културе. Али неке културе могли су чак били дефинисани и можда чак и назван по свом омиљеном оружје. Погледајте Саксонаца на пример:

Саксонци
Сасанацх, реч Ирски језик за Енглеза, има исти извођење, као и речи које се користе у велшком да опише људе енглеског (Саесон, певати саис.) И језик и ствари Енглисх уопште: Саеснег и Сеисниг. Ове речи су нормално, међутим, користи само у ирским и Велса самих језика.
Корниш и услови енглески Савснек из истог извођења. У 16. веку, фраза 'Мееа навидна цовза савзнецк!' да феигн незнање енглеског језика је коришћен у Цорнисх. [5]
Енглеска, у Гаидхлиг, је Сасаинн (Саксонија). Други примери су Велшки Саеснег (енглески језик), Ирски Сасана (Енглеска), Бретонски саоз (о) (енглески, саознег "енглески језик", Бро-саоз "Енглеска"), и Корниш Совсон (енглески) људи и Совснек (енглески језик), Пов Крмаче за 'Ланд [Страна] од Саксонаца ".
Занимљиво је да српски и румунски назив за Саксонаца је Саси, која има исти корен као Гаелиц сасанацх.
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Нико не зна где су Саксонци име долази из, али једна теорија је да Саксонци можда изведене своје име из СЕАКС, неку врсту дуге нож за који су познати.

Сцрамасак или СЕАКС:
СЕАКС (такође сак, сӕк, секс, латинизед сацхсум) је Стари енглески реч за "нож". У модерној археологији, термин СЕАКС се посебно користи за врсту мача или бодежа типичном од германских народа - нарочито Саксонце, чије име потиче од племенских оружја [2] - током периода миграције и раног средњег века.
У хералдици, СЕАКС је оптужба која се састоји од закривљених мач са назубљеном оштрицом, појављују, на пример, у грбовима Есексу и бивше Миддлесек.
Википедија каже да СЕАКС је "тип мача или бодеж типичан од германских народа - посебно Саси". Википедиа очигледно значи етничку припадност када се каже "германски". Али дуг нож је такође користи Ирцима и Словени.

Сада, ако погледамо ирских дугих ножева, англосаксонски дуги ножеви, скандинавски (Нордијске) дугих ножева, ломбардни дуге ножеве и словенски дуге ножеве из истог периода, налазимо нешто веома интересантно. Ирски, ломбардни и словенски дуги ножеви имају исти дизајн, изразито другачији од англосаксонског и Нордијци дуге ножеве.

Овде је реплика неког ирског дугог ножа Сциан:




Човек који је направио ову реплику извукао инспирацију за овај нож из његовог истраживања ирских борбених ножева у Народном музеју Ирске и из његовог истраживања о Викинг сцрамасак.

Овде су две реплике словенских дугих ножева. Погледајте облику ножа и колико то изгледа словенских оне:








Ово је пример словенског дугог ножа омотачем од 8 - 10. века. Имају поглед на "келтског" троструки чвор:



Овде је реплика Лонгбард дугог ножа. Лонгобардс су недавно повезан са Ободритес, западне Словена. На основу археолошких података налазе у Бардовик у Немачкој, што показује непрекидну континуум између Лонгобардс и Ободритес, предложено је да су један и исти народ. Ово не би био први пут да видимо бивши "германских племена" реаппеаринг као "Западна словенских племена".



Ово је Реал Лонгбард дуг нож:





Ево (Викинг) Нордијци и англо саксонски дуг нож:

Викинг СЕАКС



Old European culture

Monday, 17 March 2014

The people of the blade


Sword, knife was the weapon that defined bronze and iron age. Before Bronze and Iron were invented, there was no way to make long, thin, flexible blades, which could be used as weapons. The invention of Bronze and later Iron changed all this and we suddenly see emergence of warrior caste, military elite, which will eventually rule the world from Atlantic to Pacific.

Like every other object, weapons are also part of the culture. But some cultures could have even been defined and maybe even named after their favourite weapon. Have a look at the Saxons for instance:

Saxons
Sasanach, the Irish language word for an Englishman, has the same derivation, as do the words used in Welsh to describe the English people (Saeson, sing. Sais) and the language and things English in general: Saesneg and Seisnig. These words are normally, however, used only in the Irish and Welsh languages themselves.
Cornish also terms English Sawsnek from the same derivation. In the 16th century, the phrase 'Meea navidna cowza sawzneck!' to feign ignorance of the English language was used in Cornish.[5]
England, in Gàidhlig, is Sasainn (Saxony). Other examples are the Welsh Saesneg (the English language), Irish Sasana (England), Breton saoz(on) (English, saozneg "the English language", Bro-saoz "England"), and Cornish Sowson (English people) and Sowsnek (English language), Pow Sows for 'Land [Pays] of Saxons'.
It is interesting that Serbian and Romanian name for Saxons is Sasi, which has the same root as the Gaelic sasanach.
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No one really knows where the name Saxons comes from, but one theory is that Saxons may have derived their name from seax, a kind of a long knife for which they were known.

Scramasax or Seax:
Seax (also sax, sæx, sex, latinized sachsum) is an Old English word for "knife". In modern archaeology, the term seax is used specifically for a type of sword or dagger typical of the Germanic peoples - especially the Saxons, whose tribal name derives from the weapon[2] - during the Migration period and the Early Middle Ages.
In heraldry, the seax is a charge consisting of a curved sword with a notched blade, appearing, for example, in the coats of arms of Essex and the former Middlesex.
Wikipedia says that seax is “a type of sword or dagger typical of the Germanic peoples - especially the Saxons”. Wikipedia obviously means ethnicity when it says “Germanic”. But long knife was also used by the Irish and by the Slavs.

Now if we look at Irish long knives, Anglo-Saxon long knives, Scandinavian (Norse) long knives, Lombard long knives and Slavic long knives from the same period, we find something very interesting. Irish, Lombard and Slavic long knives have the same design, distinctly different from the Anglo-Saxon and Norse long knives.

Here is a replica of an Irish long knife Scian:




The man who made this replica drew his inspiration for this knife from his research on Irish fighting knives in the National Museum of Ireland and from his research on the Viking scramasax.

Here are two replicas of Slavic long knifes. Look at the shape of the blade and how much it looks like the Slavic ones:








This is an example of Slavic long knife sheath from 8 - 10 century. Have a look at the "Celtic" triple knot:



Here is a replica of a Longbard long knife. Longobards have recently been linked to Obodrites, Western Slavs. Based on the archaeological data found in Bardovik in Germany, which shows unbroken continuum between Longobards and Obodrites, it has been proposed that they were one and the same people. This wouldn't be the first time that we see former "Germanic" tribes reappearing as "Western Slavic" tribes.



This is Real Longbard long knife:





Here are (Viking) Norse and Anglo Saxon long knife:

Viking seax




Anglo Saxon seax



The difference is striking. Anglo Saxon and Norse long knives belong to one type and Slavic, Longobard and Irish to another. Could we talk about two distinct cultures based on the weapon design?

Despite the slight design differences, which can point to two cultural subgroups, all these people were using Saex as one of their main weapons, and clearly belonged to the same cultural group from that point of view. So they could all be called Saxons, the people, the sons of the saex. And if you remember, the book "Origin of the Anglo Saxon race" tells us that Angles and Saxons were mixed tribal confederations consisting of tribes of Germanic, Norse and Slavic origin. So it is possible to apply the name Saxon, Saex people, to all of these people.


Another theory about the origin of the name Saxons says that it comes from Saka-Suna or the Sons of Sakai which was abbreviated into Saksun. Saka in Saka-Suna means Indo Scythians. There were many different variants of the name Scythian. Transliterated Variants of their name are: Saka, Shaka, Sakai, Sacae, Scyth, Scythi, Scythia, Scythae, Scythiae, Scythes, Sythia, Skityai, Skuthai, Skythai, Skythia, Scythia, Scynthia, Scynthius, Sclaveni, Scoloti, Skodiai, Scotti, Skoloti, Skoth-ai, Skuth-a, Skoth, Skuthes, Askuza, Asguzai, Askuasa, Iskuzai...

I find it interesting that among these names for Scythians we find both Sclaveni and Scotti....

Some people say that name Sclaveni comes from Latin Sclavus meaning slave, but the latest opinion is that it is actually the opposite. Basically the term was coined during the early Slavic invasions of Latin lands, when most of the war prisoners and Slaves were Sclavini, Sclavi, Slavs.
Medieval Latin, from Late Latin Sclavus, from Byzantine Greek σκλάβος or Σκλάβος (Sklábos), probably from earlier Σλαβῆνος (Slabênos), from plural Σλαβῆνοι (Slabênoi), from Proto-Slavic *slověne (plural; the singular form Proto-Slavic *slověninŭ is derived from it).

The origin of σκλάβος has been disputed historically. Modern etymologists accept that it refers to Slavs (Old Slavonic словѣнинъ, словѣне), often enslaved during the early Middle Ages, and that the originally ethnic term came to have a more general social meaning, possibly around the 9th or 10th century when it appeared in German texts. An alternative hypothesis, now obsolete because it requires unexplained and unattested phonetic irregularities, is that it's from the Greek verb σκυλάω (skuláō), a variant of σκυλεύω (skuleúō, “to get the spoils of war”).
Anyway back to Scythians.

They were horse-riding nomadic tribes who dominated the Central-Asian or Eurasian Steppe during a broad time-frame known as Classical Antiquity. They, and many of their descendant peoples, were skilled in horse archery and are now regarded as Horse archer civilizations. Much of what is known of them we gain from the Histories (Book IV), a 5th century BC work by the Greek historian Herodotus. He focused primarily on their western branch, not surprisingly noting their proximity to Greece. He called them Scythian. He generally called the more eastern branch the Sacae. Their origin is generally dated to the 8th century BCE, near the time of the forced settlement of the same region by Assyria with Israelites. The Assyrians called them “Ashkuz”, “Khumri”, and “Gimirri” which means that Scythian and Cimmerians were one and the same people . The Classical Greeks called them “Skythai” or “Scythian”. The Persians called them “Saka”. The Romans called them “Scythiae”. Later in their history, the Chinese called them “Sai”.

If we look at what we know about Scythian religion we see something very interesting indeed, which makes the claim that the name Saxons comes from "saex" very plausible.

The two most important deities in the Scythian pantheon, were Tabiti and Agin. Herodotus identifies Tabiti as Hestia and Agin as Ares. The worship accorded to the deity Herodotus refers to as "Agin" was unique. He notes that "it is not Scythian custom [...] to make images, altars or temples to any except Agin (Ares), but to him it is their custom to make them". He describes the construction of the altar and the subsequent sacrifice as follows:
In each district of the several governments they have a temple of Agin set up in this way: bundles of brushwood are heaped up for about three furlongs in length and in breadth, but less in height; and on the top of this there is a level square made, and three of the sides rise sheer but by the remaining one side the pile may be ascended. Every year they pile on a hundred and fifty wagon-loads of brushwood, for it is constantly settling down by reason of the weather. Upon this pile of which I speak each people has an ancient iron sword set up, and this is the sacred symbol of Agin. To this sword they bring yearly offerings of cattle and of horses; and they have the following sacrifice in addition, beyond what they make to the other gods, that is to say, of all the enemies whom they take captive in war they sacrifice one man in every hundred, not in the same manner as they sacrifice cattle, but in a different manner: for they first pour wine over their heads, and after that they cut the throats of the men, so that the blood runs into a bowl; and then they carry this up to the top of the pile of brushwood and pour the blood over the sword. This, I say, they carry up; and meanwhile below by the side of the temple they are doing thus: they cut off all the right arms of the slaughtered men with the hands and throw them up into the air, and then when they have finished offering the other victims, they go away; and the arm lies wheresoever it has chanced to fall, and the corpse apart from it.
Hestia was the goddess of the hearth, home, family, state. Hestia received the first offering at every sacrifice in the household. In the public domain, the hearth of the prytaneum functioned as her official sanctuary. With the establishment of a new colony, flame from Hestia's public hearth in the mother city would be carried to the new settlement.
Hestia's name means "home and hearth". "An early form of the temple is the house hearth; the early temples at Dreros and Prinias on Crete are of this type. The temple of Apollo at Delphi always had its inner hestia. The Mycenaean great hall which had a central hearth. The hall of Odysseus at Ithaca as well. Likewise, the hearth of the later Greek prytaneum was the community and government's ritual and secular focus.

Hestia's name and functions show the hearth's importance in the social, religious, and political life of ancient Greece.

Hestia is a goddess of the first Olympian generation, along with Demeter and Hera. She was a daughter of the Titans Rhea and Cronus, which means that she is not of Greek origin.

If Hestia, the goddess of the hearth, fire is the mother of Scythians and Ares, the god of war, the swordsman is the father of Scythians, is the religion of Scythians centred around the metal work and particularly iron work, smithing, sword making, war? Svetovid, whose totem looks exactly like Scythian male ancestor totem, was Slavic war god. But then pretty much all Slavic gods were war gods...

Slavs also consider hearth and fire burning inside of it to be the center of the house and comunity. This is actually cultural characteristic of all Arian people, who worship fire as god Agni and hearth as god Varuna. If the main goddess of the Scythians was goddess of the hearth, was the main god of Scythians, Agni which was misheard as Agin? Agni was also a Trimurti, Triglav. And Triglav, Dabog, Hromi Daba, Crom Dubh was the main god of the Irish and the Serbs.

According to Tadeusz Sulimirski, this form of sword worship continued among the descendants of the Scythians, the Alans, through to the 4th century CE. Some historians argue that the arrival of the Huns on the European steppe forced a portion of Alans previously living there to move northwest into the land of Venedes, possibly merging with Western Balts there to become the precursors of historic Slav nations. But Alans did not just contribute to the ethnogenesis of the Slavs. This picture shows the migrations of the Alans during the 4th–5th centuries CE, from their homeland in the North Caucasus. Major settlement areas are shown in yellow; Alan civilian emigration in red, and; military campaigns in orange.




Alans were not the first Scythian warrior people to influence Europe. The Sarmatians lived from the 5th century BC to the 4th century AD on the territory which corresponded to the western part of greater Scythia (mostly modern Ukraine and Southern Russia, also to a smaller extent north eastern Balkans around Moldova). At their greatest reported extent, around 100 BC, these tribes ranged from the Vistula River in the Baltic to the mouth of the Danube in the Balkans, and eastward to the Volga, bordering the shores of the Black and Caspian seas as well as the Caucasus to the south.

In Strabo, the Sarmatians extend from above the Danube eastward to the Volga, and from north of the Dnepr into the Caucasus. Within Sarmatian teritory, Strabo points to a Celtic admixture in the region of the Basternae, who, he says, are of Germanic origin. The Celtic Boii, Scordisci and Taurisci are there. A fourth ethnic element being melted in are the Thracians. Moreover, the peoples toward the north are Keltoskythai, "Celtic Scythians".

According to Pliny, Scythian rule once extended as far as Germany. Jordanes supports this hypothesis by telling us on the one hand that he was familiar with the Geography of Ptolemy, which includes the entire Balto-Slavic territory in Sarmatia, and on the other that this same region was Scythia, pointing that Sarmatians were, therefore, a sub-group of the broader Scythian peoples.


This linking of Central European Celts, Slavs and East Germanics with Scythians is very important as it could explain a lot of common cultural and linguistic traits found in these people. One of these common cultural traits is the sword worship.

We have seen that Scythians worshiped the sword. On Scythian ancestor totem statues, known as baba, two elements are always present: a horn of plenty and a sword.
A collection of drawings of Scythian stelae, ranging from ca. 600 BC to AD 300. Many of them depict warriors, apparently representing the deceased buried in the kurgan, holding a drinking horn in their right hand.


If we look at Slavic deity Svetovid, we find exactly the same iconography: the horn of plenty and the sword.

The Zbruch Idol (Polish: Światowid ze Zbrucza; Ukrainian: Збручанський ідол, Russian: Збручский идол) is a 9th-century sculpture, and one of the few monuments of pre-Christian Slavic beliefs. The pillar is commonly associated with the Slavic deity Svetovid.



Who was this Father of the Scythians? Herodotus says that according to the Pontic Greeks the father of the Scythians was Heracles. We saw that the sword deity, the father was Agin - Ares. Herodotus also says that according to Scythians themselves:
A certain Targitaus was the first man who ever lived in their country, which before his time was a desert without inhabitants. He was a child- I do not believe the tale, but it is told nevertheless- of Jove and a daughter of the Borysthenes. Targitaus, thus descended, begat three sons, Leipoxais, Arpoxais, and Colaxais, who was the youngest born of the three. While they still ruled the land, there fell from the sky four implements, all of gold- a plough, a yoke, a battle-axe, and a drinking-cup. The eldest of the brothers perceived them first, and approached to pick them up; when lo! as he came near, the gold took fire, and blazed. He therefore went his way, and the second coming forward made the attempt, but the same thing happened again. The gold rejected both the eldest and the second brother. Last of all the youngest brother approached, and immediately the flames were extinguished; so he picked up the gold, and carried it to his home. Then the two elder agreed together, and made the whole kingdom over to the youngest born. From Leipoxais sprang the Scythians of the race called Auchatae; from Arpoxais, the middle brother, those known as the Catiari and Traspians; from Colaxais, the youngest, the Royal Scythians, or Paralatae. All together they are named Scoloti, after one of their kings: the Greeks, however, call them Scythians.
Either way, the father of the Scythians seem to have come to Central Asia from Europe. The worshipped sword was said to have been made from iron. Is it significant that the Scythians worshipped "an Iron" sword? At the time of Herodotus we were already deep in the Iron Age. But I believe that the fact that the metal from which the sword was made was specifically stated is significant. Did the father of the Scythians bring the iron sword and the knowledge how to make iron swords with him? The earliest iron objects date from 5000 bc. There are some samples of smelted iron from Asmar, Mesopotamia and Tall Chagar Bazaar in northern Syria from between between 2700 and 3000 BC, but the age of Iron did not start until about 1400 bc. The earliest iron metallurgical centre in the world, dated to 14th–13th century bc, was found in south eastern Serbia in the hill fort settlement on the hill called Hisar. This site belongs to the earliest proto Illyrian, Celtic period. It was the first industrial scale facility for iron production which allowed mass production of weapons including swords and knives. Did the father of the Scythians come from the Balkans?

No one knows actually what the name Scythians, Saka, Sakson means. Lets see if we can decipher it.

Scythians, Saka were sword worshippers. They considered themselves the sons of sword or at least the sons of the swordsman ancestral deity. They built Baba idols to celebrate this deity. Slavs considered themselves also the sons of the swordsman ancestral deity. Slavs built idols to celebrate this deity. Proto Slavs, Celts, Germanic lived mixed with Scythians. Saxons were allegedly descendants of Saka or Saka, Scythians themselves. The name Saxon is said to possibly mean the sons of Saka. But the name Saxon is also said to possibly come from the name of the long knife called Saex (sek). But Sek was also a Slavic, Norse, Longobardic and Irish weapon. Saxons were a tribal confederation of Slavic, Germanic and Norse tribes. Messy but very interesting.

If we look at the etymology of the word saex, sax:
Old English seax,sax and Old Frisian sax are identical with Old Saxon and Old High German saks,all from a Common Germanic*sahsom froma root*sah,*sag-"tocut" (also insaw,from aPIE root*sek-).The term scramaseax,scramsaxlit."wounding-knife" is sometimes used for disambiguation, even though it is not attested in Old English, but taken from an occurrence of scramasax in Gregory of Tours'History of the Franks.
So the wiki says it is an old German root *sah,*sag-"to cut which comes from the PIE root sek.
From Proto-Indo-European *sek- (“to cut”). Cognates include Old Church Slavonic сѣщи (sěšti, “to cut, hack, chop off”) and Old English saga (English saw), Latin seco. In Tukish sek means sharp.
Interestingly enough wiki completely misses to mention Gaelic as a language that has anything to do with Seax or verb sek.
I will now try to fix this and try to expand this etymology with a very interesting word cluster which I found in south Slavic languages and in Irish.

I will start with this citation from a medieval French manuscript:
The Gaelic skills of hand-to-hand and their style of fighting was not lost, as a French observer Boullaye le Gouz comments in 1644: "The Irish carry a scquine (scian - knife) or Turkish dagger, which they dart (throw) very adroitly at 15 paces distance; and have this advantage, that if they remain masters of the field of battle there remains no enemy, and if they are routed, they fly in such a manner that it is impossible to catch them. [A common complaint by English Tudor soldiers] I have seen an Irishman with ease accomplish 25 miles a day. They march to battle with the bagpipes instead of fifes, butt hey have few drums and they use the musket and cannon as we do. They are better soldiers abroad than at home."
The Irish long knife is called Scean or Scian. What is interesting about this word is that it is just one of a cluster of Irish words with the root sc which all somehow relate to blades, making blades, using blades and consequences of using blades. I will here just list few representative ones; you can consult the dictionary for more:

Scaineamh– shingly
Sclata– slate
Scaineadh-crack, split
Sceallog– chip, thin slice
Scealla– shale, flake
Scablail– chisel work
Scaid– husks
Scaineach– thin, cracked
Scean,scian (pronounced shkian) – knife
Scean– crack, split, sever

All these words are built usind "sc" root which is the same root we find in "sec".

I believe that these words have potentially root in a stone age. When you look at them they basically describe making of a stone blade from a stone. You get a shingly stone, slate, you chip it, split it until you get a sharp blade. Husks and chips fall off in the process. Then you can use it to cut, split and sever…

Here is the corresponding south Slavic word cluster. You will notice that it is a lot bigger and wider than the Irish one, but it covers the same word range needed to describe making of a stone blade from as tone as well as all the metal blades and their usage. The fact that in the south Slavic languages we find all the words connected with the stone blades as well as the metal blades with the same root shouldn't surprise us. It was the Balkans, more precisely within the territory of today’s Serbia that metal blades were produced for the first time in copper, bronze and iron. It is fitting to presume that whoever made these metal blades used the same word s(e)k as the root word for both stone and metal blades. If this is so, what does this tell us about the age of these words?

Školjka– shell. Shells are sharp and could have been what gave people idea to create first blades
Skriljac– slate. This stone can be easily chipped and was used for weapon blades.
Skresati– from kresati. Kresati means to hit one thing with another, so that the hitting thing slides of the side of the thing being hit. The word is used to describe hitting a stone with a stone to chip them or to make fire and for cutting branches of a log, basically to chip or to trim. Skresati means to actually chip a bit of or to cut a brunch off, to separate bits.
Skalja– small thin chips of stone or wood
Sek(sometimes pronounced as sik or sk)– root word meaning to cut but also a blade. Word seći(to cut) comes from sekti.
Sečivo(pronounced sechivo) – blade
Sekira(sikira, skira) – axe
Sekare(škare pronounces shkare) – scissors
Sekia(sekian) – knife. This word is now preserved in Bosnian slang word for knife “ćakija” (sekia). This word can also be deduced from a word škia (pronounced shkia) which is a dinaric dialect word which means a thin hand sliced tobacco.
Sekač.– a one sided blade
škiljiti– to squint, to make your eyes look like as if they were two cuts.
Skija– a blade on a sled, and later a ski.
Sekutić – front tooth
Usek,zasek – a cut, groove
Sek– a log house where logs, which are also called sek, are connected by interlocking cuts made at their ends.
Seknuti– to strike or hit suddenly
Skratiti– to cut down to cut short
Skrvaviti– to make bloody
Skloca– foldup knife
Škljocati- to make a noise by closing something sharp like teeth or scissors.
Škrgutati– to grind teeth
Škopiti– to castrate, to cut balls off.
Skulj– a castrated ram
Škrip– a cut, a narrow space

This word cluster is possibly based on an onomatopoeic root “sk” which potentially makes it very old. The sound which a blade makes when pulled across something in order to cut it is “sssssssk”, "sek". When you cut something off with a sudden hit of blade sound shortens to "tsk" or "tsak".

What I find is very very interesting is word for scissors. Scissors are a complicated implement and who ever made them first gave them the name that stuck among the people who used them first, which probably related people who were living close together.

In Russian and all central and east Slavic languages (including Bulgarian and Macedonian) it is a form of word nožnice.
In Scandinavian languages it is some form of saks.
In French English and Irish it is ciseaux, scissors, siosúr.
In Greek and Latin it is ψαλίδιand axicia
In Italian it is forbici.

But in Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian, Dutch, German and Latvian it is škare,schaar, schere, šķēres…

We know that the root word is sekare which comes from the sek root. When we have a look at the word for cut and blade in all these languages we get this:

To cut

German - geschnitten (is this actually ga sekni ten?)
Dutch– snijden (this is probably from the above root sekniten)
Icelandic - skera
Latvian - dalīt, griezt
Latin - seco
Serbian,Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian – Seći(Sekti)

To Slice

Danish - skive

Finnish - sektorin
Latvian - šķēle
Swedish - skiva
Serbian,Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian – Iseći(Isekti)

Blade

German– Schneide (Sekniede?), Klinge
Dutch– mes
Latvian– asmens
Latin - asmens
Serbian,Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian – sek

You can notice that only Western Slavic languages have the root words, and languages of the people around South Baltic have some but not all derived words. So what is the connection between these people? Angles and Saxons were a mixed tribal Group. And so were the Vikings. They both included western Slavic tribes. Did western Slavic people bring the word "sek" with them? And if Serbian,Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian have the root "sek" and the full word cluster related to blades, where did the root "sec" (sek) come from then? If we look at Latin we see that it doesn't have the full cluster of sek words, which we find in Serbian,Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian. This could mean that Latin "sec" is borrowed from another language. Which one? I will not answer this question but will give you a clue: word segment comes from Latin segmentum (“a piece cut off, a strip, segment of the earth, a strip of tinsel”), from secare (“to cut”). In Serbian segmentum can be divided into sek + men + to (tu) = cut + to me + that (there), which is the exact meaning of the word segmentum. You can't get this meaning from Latin.

And how come we find the same "sc" clusters in Irish and South Slavic languages? How old must the connection be between these two languages to produce this kind of similarity?

After all this, I will ask this question: is it possible that names Saka, Scythians, Scotii, Saxons, Sclaveni come from s(e)c - to cut and s(e)c - blade, knife, sword? Are Saka, Scythians, Scotii, Saxons, Sclaveni people of the sword? And if so how come neither Sanskrit nor Avestan, nor Turkic languages have root "sec" (sek) and related clusters for blades? Does this confirm that the iron sword wielding male ancestors of Scythians came from Europe?

As part of this analysis I have to mention one more word: to slaughter,to kill a living thing using a sharp blade. We need to investigate this word because after all, blades are made for slaughter more than anything else.

In south Slavic languages a word for to slaughter or related to slaughter are:

Klati– to slaughter
Klanje– slaughter
Klan– being slaughtered
Koljač– the one that slaughters
Saklan(zaklan) – slaughtered
Kljakav– someone who is missing a limb due to its being cut off.
Kljuse– a horse which is too old to be useful and which needs to be slaughtered, killed (kolje se)
Kljusav– ready to be slaughtered, killed
Koljivo– a ceremonial meal made from cooked wheat eaten at Serbian “Slava”celebration. Slava is today a family patron saint day celebration,but originally it was a clan ancestral cult celebration. Each family had its own deity as a clan progenitor, and that deity was celebrated as the father of the clan. Originally human sacrifices were made even down to medieval times and maybe even later. In case of Dabog or Hromi Daba, the main deity of all Serbian clans, even first born children were sacrificed. Animals such as lambs, goats and bulls were also sacrificed and are still to this day. Animal sacrifices and particularly human sacrifices sharply distinguished Serbs and other western Slavs from eastern Slavs. During slavisation of the Serbs,blood sacrifices were replaced with cooked wheat but the name remained: koljivo (what was slaughtered as a sacrifice).

Word klati is an onomatopoeic word based on the root “kl” which potentially makes it very old as well.

“kl”or “gl” is, I believe, one of the oldest word roots which is related to things coming out of a throat. It is particularly a sound of choking of gasping for air while something liquid is filling your throat and lungs, like blood when an animal or a person is being slaughtered. If you have ever slaughtered anything you will not easily forget that sound. The sound is kljkljklj….

In south Slavic languages we have this word

Krkljati– gargle
Kuljati– to gush, as in puking or bleeding when a throat is slit, or bleeding when a body is sliced open with a blade, or a head crushed with an axe blow.
kljukati - continuously stuff something down someones throat.

It is interesting how much this klati sound like kill. In wiktionary we find this as etymology of kill:
From Middle English killen,kyllen,cüllen(“to strike, beat, cut”),possibly a variant of Old English cwellan(“tokill, murder, execute”)(seequell),or from Old Norse kolla(“tohit on the head, harm”)(compare Norwegian kylla(“topoll”),Middle Dutch kollen(“toknock down”),Icelandic kollur(“top,head”),see coll,cole).Compare also Middle Dutch killen,kellen(“tokill”),Middle Low German killen(“toache strongly, to cause one great pain”),Middle High German kellen. Cognate with Albanian qëlloj(“tohit, strike”).
I think these words are related, but I will leave this to others to investigate further.

Now we also have word klanac which means a gorge, a deep narrow valley out of which a river flows. These valleys are deep cuts in hills and mountains which look as if they were made by a gods using giant blade. Out of these earth wounds, water, the blood of the earth gushes out.
This is incredible descriptive naming of geological formations, as klanac does also resemble a deep cut made by a blade in a flesh, especially in a neck while slaughtering out of which blood starts gushing out.If you have ever slaughtered anything or anyone you will know what I am talking about.
So klanac is a place where mother earth has been slaughtered. How old could this word possible be?

Now in Gaelic we have this word: Glen. The word is Goidelic : gleann in Scottish and Irish Gaelic, glion in Manx.In Manx,glan is also to be found meaning glen. It is cognate with Welsh glynl.

Wiktionary says that it means: A secluded and narrow valley;a dale;a depression between hills.




It is interesting that Serbian word for "wedge" is "klin". Wedge is used for splitting, cleaving. You can see that klin (wedge) has the same shape as glen (gorge). Gorge looks as if it was created by splitting the mountain with a klin (wedge) or by cleaving it.




We also have word claon: inclining, squint, oblique, Irish claon,Old Irish clóin:* kloino-; Latin cli@-no, accli@-nis, leaning, English incline;Greek@ Gklínw(@Gilong), incline; English lean; Lithuanian szlë/ti, incline; Sanskrit çrayati(do.).

To quint means to look with the eyes partly closed, as in bright sunlight, or as a threatening expression. Squinting makes eyes look like two slits. Remember squint is škiljiti in Serbian. Both the English and Serbian word have root "sk" to cut which is exactly what squinting eyes look like, like two cuts....





Here are few more Irish words that show the use of this old root kla (make a deep cut, slaughter) which has been preserved in Serbian:

claíomh - sword (what you use to perform "clanje" slaughter with)
claimhte - swords
muirchlaimhte - cutlasses
clasaigh - channel, trench, gash, groove (something deep which is cut)
clasan - small channel, gully
clais - water channel
clai - dike
cladh - ditch but in scots gaelic graveyard, churchyard, cemetery, burial ground.

In old welsh cladiff also means semetary.



How come we have Cladh and Cladifh, both starting with C both meaning ditch, graveyard, one in "p celtic" and another in "q celtic"???

So here we have a link between to slaughter, to cut a slit, to squint, klanac (glen, gorge), clai (dike), clais (channel, trench)…
In English we have word "kill". The official etymology states:
From Middle English killen, kyllen, cüllen (“to strike, beat, cut”), possibly a variant of Old English cwellan (“to kill, murder, execute”) (see quell), or from Old Norse kolla (“to hit on the head, harm”) (compare Norwegian kylla (“to poll”), Middle Dutch kollen (“to knock down”), Icelandic kollur (“top, head”), see coll, cole). Compare also Middle Dutch killen, kellen (“to kill”), Middle Low German killen (“to ache strongly, to cause one great pain”), Middle High German kellen.
I believe that klati and kill could be related.

But the word which is directly related to "klati" is the English verb "cleave", meaning to slice, split, separate by cutting. The official etymology states:
From Middle English cleven, from the Old English strong verb clēofan, from Proto-Germanic *kleubaną, from Proto-Indo-European *glewbʰ- (“to cut, to slice”). Cognate with Dutch klieven, dialectal German klieben, Swedish klyva, and Greek γλύφω (glýfo, “carve”).
If we look at the "Proto-Indo-European" *glewbʰ we find that Slavic "klati" and Irish "glen, claon" are not listed:
Germanic: *kleubaną; *klebô
Ancient Greek: γλύφω (glúphō)
Latin: glubo


What is very interesting is that at in Latin word for sword, gladius, has this etymology:
Of Celtic origin, probably from Gaulish *kladyos (“sword”), from Proto-Celtic *kladiwos (“sword”), from Proto-Indo-European *kola-, *klā- (“to beat, break, kill”). Cognate with Old Irish claideb (“sword”), Irish claíomh, Manx cliwe, Scots Gaelic claidheamh, Welsh cleddyf (“sword”), Breton klezeñv (“sword”).
So here we are seeing that Latin word for sword, a weapon used for killing, slicing, slaughtering, cleaving is supposed to have come from Celtic word for sword. The root for all these words have been preserved in Serbian where we have this etymology: klati = klao + ti = slaughter + you. Perfect etymology for short sword used for slaughtering.


In Serbia there is a gorge called Iron gate gorge. It was carved through the Carpathian mountains by Danube.




At the place where Danube exits the Iron Gate gorge, there is a town called Kladovo. Ranka Kujic, professor of Celtic studies from Belgrade university and member of Welsh academy postulated that the name of the town was derived from Celtic word "kladiff" meaning "cemetery" in English. Early Bronze Age pottery of the Kostolac-Kocofeni culture was found in Donje Butorke, Kladovo, as well as several miniature duck-shaped vases of 14th century BC in Mala Vrbica and Korbovo. Bronze Age necropolis with rituals, pottery (decorated with meander) and other significant archaeological items were found in nearby Korbovo.

I would like to propose alternative etymology for Kladovo and Korbovo:

Irish word "corb" means cart, chariot, wagon.
Old Irish word claideb, Scots Gaelic claidheamh and Welsh cleddyf all mean sword.

Is Korbovo a pleace where corbs, chariots, carts, wagons were made? And if so, was Kladovo place where swords were made?

All these words show us again that there is a deep link between the Irish, Welsh and Serbs and other Slavs, particularly Central European Western Slavs.

We can see from the age of the words for slit, slaughter and cut how old this connection is. We can see that the connection goes back at least to the time of Celts and Scythians, men armed with Bronze and Iron swords, who conquered Eurasia by slaughtering (klati) and cutting (sekti) their opponents with "clati(v)" (swords) and "sec" (blades, knives)...But we could also see, from the related Serbian and Irish "s(e)c" word clusters, that the connection could have been even older, possibly stretching back to neolithic. The word roots "sk" and "kl" could be truly ancient.

http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.co.uk...blade.html
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/831180-g...nt-greece/

Geneticist Traces Mysterious Origins of Native Americans to Middle East, Ancient Greece
By Tara MacIsaac, Epoch Times | August 1, 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnGygY2FwJc

The idea that Native Americans are descended from ancient Jews, Egyptians, or Greeks has been a controversial one for hundreds of years. James Adair, an 18th century settler who traded with Native Americans for 40 years, wrote that their language, customs, and social structures were similar to those of the Israelites.

He wrote in his book “The History of the American Indians”: “It is a very difficult thing to divest ourselves, not to say, other persons, of prejudices and favourite opinions, and I expect to be censured by some for opposing commonly received sentiments, or for meddling with a dispute agitated among the learned ever since the first discovery of America.”
In more recent years, similar observations by Dr. Donald Panther-Yates have even met with what Yates described as “hate mail” from indigenous studies professors.

It is commonly held that Native Americans descended from Mongolians. In 2013, a study published in the journal Nature acknowledged that some ancient European ancestry is possible. The DNA from a 24,000-year-old corpse in Siberia was analyzed. It showed no resemblance to Asian populations, only to European, yet it showed a clear connection to Native Americans. But the mainstream scientific community is far from embracing the theory that Native Americans descended from ancient Middle-Eastern or Greek peoples as Yates and some others have proposed.

Yates is of Cherokee descent, he has a Ph.D. in classical studies, and he founded the genetics research institution DNA Consultants. These three credentials have given him a unique perspective on Native American history as it relates to these ancient cultures, and how DNA testing can support the theoretical link.



Genetic Similarities
Native Americans are generally thought to fit into five genetic groups, known as haplotypes, each named by a letter of the alphabet: A,B,C,D, and X.

Yates demonstrated in a paper titled “Anomalous Mitochondrial DNA Lineages in the Cherokee,” what he calls the fallacy behind many genetic analyses: “[The geneticists say] ‘Lineage A, B, C, D, and X are American Indian. Therefore, all American Indians are lineage A, B, C, D, and X.’ The fallacy in such reasoning is apparent. It could be restated as: ‘All men are two-legged creatures; therefore since the skeleton we dug up has two legs, it is human.’ It might be a kangaroo.”

Any divergence from the expected haplotypes is usually attributed to an intermingling of races after European colonization, not to the genes that came with Native Americans from their origin.

After analyzing Cherokee DNA, Yates concluded, “No such mix could have resulted from post-1492 European gene flow into the Cherokee Nation.”

“So where do our non-European, non-Indian-appearing elements come from?” he asked. “The level of haplogroup T in the Cherokee (26.9 percent) approximates the percentage for Egypt (25 percent), one of the only lands where T attains a major position among the various mitochondrial lineages.”

Yates focused on haplotype X for “its relative absence in Mongolia and Siberia and a recently proven center of diffusion in Lebanon and Israel.”

In 2009, Liran I. Shlush at the Israel Institute of Technology published a paper in the journal PLOS ONE stating that the X haplotype spread through the world from the Hills of Galilee in northern Israel and Lebanon. Yates wrote: “The only other place on earth where X is found at an elevated level apart from other American Indian groups like the Ojibwe is among the Druze in the Hills of Galilee in northern Israel and Lebanon.”



Cultural, Linguistic Similarities
Though much of the Cherokee culture has been lost, noted Yates in his book “Cherokee Clans,” what can still be discovered about the legends hints at ancestors who came across the sea and whose language was similar to ancient Greek. Some linguistic parallels have also been drawn between the Native American languages and Egyptian and Hebrew.

The Cherokee’s white demigod Maui may have his roots in a Libyan leader of a fleet dispatched by the pharaoh Ptolemy III before 230 B.C., Yates explained. “Maui” is similar to the Egyptian words for “guide” or “navigator.” Maui was said to have brought all civilized arts and crafts. He gave the Cherokee their title for principal chief, Amatoyhi or Moytoy, said Yates, which translates as “mariner” or “admiral.”

He recounted a Cherokee Twister Clan legend that named Maui’s father as Tanoa. Yates said Tanoa may refer to a Greek. “Tanoa was the father of all fair-haired children and came from a land called Atia,” he wrote.

Atia may refer to Attica, a historical region encompassing the Greek capital, Athens. Atia was said to be a place “full of high alabaster temples,” one of which “was very spacious, and was built as a meeting-place for gods and men.” At this place, one found sporting competitions, games, feasts to the gods, meetings of great chiefs, and the origin of wars that caused people to spread over the Pacific.

“One could hardly invent a more fitting folk memory of Greek culture,” Yates wrote. “The Hawaiian word that epitomized this lost world is karioi, ‘leisure, ease,’ literally the same word in Greek for ‘amusements.’” Yates notes numerous other linguistic similarities.

“According to the Keetoowah Society elders, the Cherokee once spoke a non-Indian language akin to Hopi, but gave it up and adopted Mohawk to continue to live with the Iroquois. The ‘old tongue’ seems to have many elements of Greek, the language of Ptolemaic Egypt and ancient Judeans,” he said.

Adair noted linguistic similarities between Native American languages and Hebrew.

As in Hebrew, Native American nouns have neither cases nor declensions, wrote Adair. Another similarity is the lack of comparative or superlative degrees. “There is not, perhaps, any one language or speech, except the Hebrew and the Indian American, which has not a great many prepositions. The Indians, like the Hebrews, have none in separate and express words. They are forced to join certain characters to words, in order to supply that great deficit,” he wrote.



A Perspective From the Past
Adair offers a perspective on the culture Yates cannot. Adair interacted extensively with the Native Americans hundreds of years ago, while their traditions were still thriving. Of course, the extent to which he may have misunderstood that culture as an outsider must be taken into account.

“From the most exact observations I could make in the long time I traded among the Indian Americans, I was forced to believe them lineally descended from the Israelites, either while they were a maritime power, or soon after the general captivity, the latter however is the most probable,” Adair wrote.

They had a similar tribe organization, he said. Their manner of delimiting time was similar, as was their custom of having a most holy place, and their designation of prophets and high-priests.

He gave an example of a similar custom: “Correspondent to the Mosaic law of women’s purification after travel, the Indian women absent themselves from their husbands and all public company, for a considerable time.”

He explained the absence of circumcision among Native Americans thus: “The Israelites were but forty years in the wilderness, and would not have renewed the painful act of circumcision, only that Joshua inforced it; and by the necessary fatigues and difficulties, to which as already hinted, the primitive Americans must be exposed at their first arrival in this vast and extensive wilderness, it is likely they forbore circumcision, upon the divine principle extended to their supposed predecessors in the wilderness, of not accepting sacrifice at the expense of mercy. This might soothe them afterwards to wholly to reject it as a needless duty, especially if any of the eastern heathens accompanied them in their travels in quest of freedom.”

It seems the Cherokee people have had mixed feelings about Yates’s work. While the Central Band of Cherokee website has posted a summary of Yates’s research, some online comments indicate that some Cherokee have been reluctant to stand behind such claims or to involve themselves in the controversy.

In writing about the Cherokee Paint Clan, Yates stated: “Some of them practiced Judaism, although United Keetoowah [a Cherokee organization] elders vehemently deny this.”

Follow @TaraMacIsaac on Twitter and visit the Epoch Times Beyond Science page on Facebook to continue exploring the new frontiers of science!
http://www.kurir-info.rs/vesti/drustvo/s...ak-1493077

Svi Sloveni su se nekada zvali Srbi!

DRUŠTVO16:14, 03.08.2014.Autor: Foto:Vikipedija

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Prema knjizi “Od Indije do Srbije – tri hiljade godina srpske istorije” Dobroslava Jevđevića, zasnovanoj na citatima i spisima najvećih svetskih istoričara, srpska istorija najmanje je stara koliko i najstariji haldejski, asirski i misirski rukopisi koji datiraju od pre sedam hiljada godina
Seoba Srba, Paja Jovanović, foto Wikipedia
Seoba Srba (Paja Jovanović)
BEOGRAD - Oslanjajući se na citate najvećih svetskih istoričara sabranih u knjizi "Od Indije do Srbije - tri hiljade godina srpske istorije" Dobroslava Jevđevića, donosimo vam priču koja otkriva da li su od Srba potekli Grci i da li stoje iza podizanja Akropolja.

Od vajkada učimo kako istorija Srba počinje u šestom veku, od vremena doseljavanja iz pribaltičkih zemalja na Balkan, kao da nas pre toga nije ni bilo. Prihvatajući takozvanu berlinsko-bečku školu, ponekad se čini kao da smo se ćutke pomirili sa malo je reći – falsifikovanim istorijatom prema kojem Srbi u najmanju ruku ne predstavljaju autohtoni narod u Podunavlju i na Balkanu.

Zar sama činjenica da su nakon doseljavanja na Balkan Srbi već imali usavršen jezik, običaje, kulturni temelj (o carstvima da i ne govorimo) nije bila dovoljna da, ako ništa bar zagolica maštu.

Pa, počnimo onda iz početka. Prema knjizi “Od Indije do Srbije – tri hiljade godina srpske istorije” Dobroslava Jevđevića, zasnovanoj na citatima i spisima najvećih svetskih istoričara, srpska istorija najmanje je stara koliko i najstariji haldejski, asirski i misirski rukopisi koji datiraju od pre sedam hiljada godina.

Interesantno je, recimo, da se baš u pomenutim spisima pominje ime Srbin, ali ne i Sloven, kao i da je u jednom od najčuvenijih rukopisa, “Kineskom dvorskom dnevniku”, koji je neprekidno pisan od oko dve hiljadite godine pre Hrista, izloženo da su u to vreme Srbi živeli u azijskoj Sarmatiji i u zemljama iza Dona.

Verovatno vođen ovim podacima, čak je i Francuz Rober Siprijan razvio teoriju o poreklu svih Slovena od Iliro-Srba, tačnije od podunavskih balkanskih Srba, koji su se prostirali od Baltičkog i Crnog mora do Kavkaza i Kaspijskog jezera.

Srbi, koji su iz Sarbarske, preko Male azije, stigli na Balkan 3.000 godina pre Hrista, naselili su Staru Rašku (Trakiju), i Krit i to tri talasa 1.800, 1.500 i 1.400 godine pre Hrista. Iako su pobedili Krićane, izmešali su se sa njima i pretopili u novi narod – Grke!

U knjizi “Od Indije do Srbije – tri hiljade godina srpske istorije” navodi se čak da ni imena grada Atine i istoimene boginje nisu grčka, kao i da se u nekim zapisima tvrdi da su Akropolj zapravo podigli Srbi.
Sami Grci za sebe kažu da su nastali od naroda zvanog Pelazgi, kao i da su govorili “varvarskim” jezikom, a nalazi ukazuju da su to bili Srbi.

Srpski istoričar Jovan Rajić u “Istoriji Srba” (1794) izvodi poreklo Srba od Hunskih Sabira, dok drugi autori ime Srba izvode iz Srbata – Sarmata, reke Serbice (između Eufrata i Tigra u Mesopotamiji, današnji Irak), reči sobranie (zbor, sabor) ili ga prostorno vezuju za Sibiriju, jednu od srpskih prapostojbina.

Češki istoričar Pavel Šafarik vezuje srpsko ime sa reči Sjarbin, Serb, Serbin, Sibrin, što su sve oblici značenja roda, naroda, a što ima isto značenje sa latinskom reči gens i natio, ili indijskom reči Serim, što znači narod iste krvi.
“Ime Srbin je najstarije i duboko ukorenjeno među svim Slovenima” napisao je Šafarik.
Foto: Miilena ĐorđevićFoto: Miilena ĐorđevićGrčki istoričar Herodot smatrao je da su Srbi Tračani i da su posle Indusa najveći narod na svetu.

Prihvatajući njegovo stanovište, nemački i ruski istoričari razradili su tezu da je “među Srbima od pamtiveka živelo veliko pleme nazivano Raščani ili Rasi, a to ime potiče iz Indije od reči Raška, sto označava rujnu crvenu boju, koju su Srbi oduvek voleli.”

Neda Marinović u opisu najstarijeg naroda na Balkanu iznosi da Srbin, u starodavnom indijskom jeziku, sanskritu, iz koga su potekli svi indo-evropski jezici, među kojima i srpski, označava “slobodnog čoveka” koji se večito bori za sopstveni opstanak.

Iskonski Raščani Crveni Srbi, u vreme Herodota, živeli su u Maloj Aziji i na Balkanu u Trakiji. Po njima je i nazvana oblast Stara Raška u Trakiji pored reke Marice i novija Raška, Nemanjina prva Srbija.

Grčki istoričar Laonik Halkokondil tvrdi da su Srbi najstariji i najveći narod na svetu (podrazumevajući pod tim imenom sve Slovene), a u originalnoj nemačkoj hronici pisanoj oko 750. godine nove ere koja se nalazi u Minhenu, između ostalog piše: “Srbi predstavljaju tako veliko carstvo (regnum) da su iz njih proizašli svi slovenski narodi” (Hormayers Archiv, st. 282-283).

Jedan od najpoznatijih hrvatskih istoričara dr. Franjo Rački u svojoj “Povjesti Slovena” navodi: “U početku su se Sloveni nazivali domaćim imenom Srbi, tj. rođaci, a stranci, specijalno Nemci zvali su ih Vendima. Tim imenom zvali su ih i Grci i Rimljani još od sedmog veka pre Hrista“.

Samo ovih nekoliko navoda (a, ima ih barem još toliko) potvrđuje da su Srbi najstariji slovenski narod i da je ime Srbin hiljadama godina starije od imena Sloven.

Ime Sloven javlja se prvi put u petom veku nove ere sa rimskim osvajanjem. Pomerajući se na Zapad Evrope, Srbi su se sukobili sa Germanima. U to doba sva srpska plemena međusobno su se razumevala i počeli su se zvati Slovenima, a one koje nisu razumeli nazvali su Nemci, jer su im delovali nemo. Kako su se do tada svi Sloveni nazivali Srbima i hiljadama godina sačuvali to ime, otuda su svakako oni bili kičma i srž svih slovenskih naroda.
Rus Veltman u svojoj istoriji potvrđuje da je u drevnim vremenima ime Srbin bilo zajedničko svim Slovenima. I nemački etnolog Zering piše:

“Prvo opšte ime svih Slovena bilo je Srbli, što je značilo ujedinjeni“, a mađarski grof Kalaj u svojoj istoriji navodi: “Po ispitivanjima najboljih naučnika svi slovenski narodi u prastaro doba nazivali su se Srbi“. On takođe navodi da se od šestog veka pojavljuje ime Slavi, dok su svi Sloveni živeli zajedno i nazivali se sabraćom.

(Telegraf)

s s s s

Kako smo mi ucili, a nazalost to traje jos uvek, nakaradnu istoriju. Svim akademicima istorijskih nauka bi trebalo oduzeti titule, jer su najodgovorniji za falsifikovanje proslosti.

224Odgovori
kecIZrukava
03.08.2014. u 17:29
kecIZrukava

Genetskim ispitivanjem na Harvardu je utvrdjeno da su Srbi najstariji narod u Evropi!!!! Od pre 12 000 god. Treba pogledati i "Predanje o Belim Srbima" i nastanak Srba (iznenadicete se)! Pogledati i Vincansku kulturu, nastanak simbola (Ahil recimo ima na svojoj ratnickoj odeci Srpske oznake) itd ali vrlo bitno, saznati ko smo i odakle smo, a ne ova falsifikovana istorija!! Tacno, ovi akademici nisu zasluzili svoje titule i privilegije!

191Odgovori
novosadski deran
03.08.2014. u 17:54
novosadski deran

Slovenske zemlje treba da se ujedine u sopstvenu Uniju, od gore Rusije, pa svo do grcke odnosno sa Grcima. Sasvim razumno, i onako nas na istoku smatraju trecom klasom. A Hrvate nikako ne prihvatati, spasli smo ih i napravili im drzavu krajem prvog svetskog rata ujedinjenem i to nam se obilo o glavu.

165Odgovori
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POSLEDNJI KOMENTAR

Aleksandar
04.08.2014. u 14:54
Aleksandar

Smesno. Ma da, em smo nebeski narod em smo najstariji. Da..

Сад олекивам нешто од Драже и Четника......нешто од ЕУ......па онда Санкције против Русије!

Или је се надам да је ово нека почетна преокрета!

Како забркају од датуме.....чак се лично ругају!

Поготово кад стојих податке од Лепенски Вир....

Али ових новинари су за вешање....и толико су одговорних за непрофесционализам....зомбирање...овај зомбираног народ.....невероватно кад овако нешто пишу нису, барем да су потражили свој предмет!
Захумље Пише:Srbi, koji su iz Sarbarske, preko Male azije, stigli na Balkan 3.000 godina pre Hrista
У Птоломејевој мапи света Индија је као по обичају у време старих Римљана подељена у „India intra Gangem”, то јест „Индија са ове стране реке Ганђеа“ и „India extra Gangem“, то јест сви они крајеви који су данас Бангладеш, Мјанмар и Тајландија...
Слично на северу азијатског континента Птоломеј укаже на једну огромну територију, коју он делује у „Sarbia intra imaum montes” и “Sarbia extra imaum montes”, то јест „Сарбија са ове стране неких планина“ и „Сарбија преко неких планина“ које морају бити Урали или у крајњем случају актуелне планине Тјаншан, с обзиром да Птоломеј истовремено указује на Сарматију то јест јужну Русију, коју такође делује у два дела.
Дакле, по мени највероватније реч „Сибир“ долази управо од исконске земље „Сарбија“, коју су морали насељавати таман Протословени, можемо рећи „Русо-Серби“.
Још источније од те „Сарбије“ Птоломеј је указивао у крај који се на латинском звао „Serica regio”, то јест земља коју су насељавали „Сери“, „Seres” на латинском. Главни град те земље је била Сера, која је морала да буде лоцирана у актуелној северној Кини.
Куриозно је да се свилен на латинком звао „serica”, што значи да најцењенији производ старог доба долазио је управо од земље тих старих Сера.
Да ли то значи да су Сери били Кинези?
Занимљивије је то што следи.
Према латинском аутору Плинију старијем римски извиђачи су дошли чак до неког острва које су дуго време историчари сматрали Силоном, који је данас Сри Ланка. Неки други аутори сада сматрају, због присуства једног великог језера и због других разлога, да је то острво морало да буде Суматра. Мештани тог острва су разменили информације са римским извиђацима и причали су им на пример о једном народу, то јест о тим Серима, који су живели преко планина „Емоди“ (Хималаја?) и са којим су одржавали трговачке везе.
Римљанима је речено да су ти Сери „били високог нараштаја, плавокоси и плавооки, са промуклим гласом и језиком који је мало прикладан за разговор“.
Да ли то значи да су Сери били Кинези?

Не...обратно .....има део Кине/Кинези ко могу да лично повезује са Балканом...оних су високи, мршави и имају високе јагодице.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shandong
Места што је повезано са огнишства Кинезке цивилизације у веронаук!

Занимљиво да је Шандонг регија са највисоких Кинеза......народ се може повезати са Хан Династијом....ко су имали у та време Сорба на своје границе...(стављено на један старом форум).

Теракота Ратнике......
http://www.chinahighlights.com/jinan/att...eishan.htm
ЛукаЛоко Пише:Слично на северу азијатског континента Птоломеј укаже на једну огромну територију, коју он делује у „Sarbia intra imaum montes” и “Sarbia extra imaum montes”, то јест „Сарбија са ове стране неких планина“ и „Сарбија преко неких планина“ које морају бити Урали
Опростите!
Учинио сам једну велику грешку, протумачио сам име "Scythia" као "Sarbia".
Ово је мапа:
[Слика: tolemaica.jpg]
Уствари тамо пише: "Scithia intra Imaum montem"..Blush
Имам то у једној књизи, тамо је слика лоша и изгледа као да пише Сарбиа.
Ако ништа друго постоји још један крај који се назива "Sarba regio" или је можда је то "Sarha".
Овде је јасније:
[Слика: Scythia_serica.jpg]
Испод те слике на Википедији пише да су те планине "Имаус" Хималаја. Речи су сличне али мени оне изгледају Урали.
У овој другој мапи тамо на северу постоји једно племе које се назива "Syrbi".
Цитат: ШОКАНТАН СТАРИ ЧЕШКИ ДОКУМЕНТ: Бог се на Србе наљути и расели их из Вавилона!

Пре него што почнете да бацате камење, ова теза није „наша“ идеја, она долази из чувеног средњевековног текста – „Далимилова хроника“. Ипак, велике су шансе да никада нисте чули за ово, а ето и разлога да га баш због тога објавимо, каже аутор овог текста.

Далемилова хроника

Дакле, шта је то „Далимилова хроника“? То је веома важан документ за Чехе, јер је то први познати писани текст на чешком језику, негде у првој четвртини XIV века. Текст је такође преведен на немачки и има много ре-издања у овом делу свету због велике популарности.

Укратко, овак текст нам даје хронолошку историју Словена, почевши од најстаријих времена и завршавајући са важним догађајима XIV века. Аутор повезује порекло Словена још са градњом Вавилона. Али, да буде шокантније, не користи реч „Словени“ уопште, већ уместо тога реч Срби!
У VI веку Прокопије први пут помиње Словене у Византији (Источном Римском Царству) и наводи их као Склабои (Σκλάβοι). Прво помињање старословенског је из IX века и чита се Словене (Slověne). Па зашто Срби, а не Словени? То је мистерија, али овај текст тврди да су се Срби након што их је Бог казнио преселили из Вавилона у област Медитерана.

Аутор нажалост не може да нам обезбеди изворе за своје тврдње, али претпоставља се да су неке од његових идеја базиране на старим хроникама написаним на латинском језику, које нису сачуване данас, као и неке усмене традиције словенских племена.

“Mezi jinými Srbové,
тu kdežto bydlí Rekové,
podle more se usadili,
až do Ríma se rozminožili.”
Одломак је из Поглавља 1, редови 29-32, а значе:
„Међу осталим Србима,
где бораве Грци,
близу мора су се населили
и до Рима су се проширили.“

Одмах после ових редова порекло словенских племена објашњава на следећи начин:

„V srbském jazyku jest země,
jiež Charvátci jest jmě.
V tej zemi bieše lech,
jemuž jmě bieše Čech“
Односно, у питању је Поглавље 2, редови 1-4, који кажу:
„У српском језику постоји земља,
која се зове Хрватска,
у тој земљи беше Пољак
који се звао Чех.“

Дакле, ово постаје све више и више загонетка као што видимо. Да ли је то аутор покушао да направи хронологију словенских племена овде? Он је написао да је Чешка била пољски човек који је дошао из Хрватске која је била српска земља? Ни сами не знамо шта је мислио под тим.
Истине ради, била је друга бела Хрватска и друга Бела Србија у главној области Бојемије, која је данас Пољска, дакле, да ли говори о Балкану или о овој другој области?
Мишљења о овоме се разликују. Неки кажу да говори о балканским земљама, а за то постоје два разлога:
1. Овај део текста долази одмах након пасуса где повезује Србе са Медитераном.
2. У наставку текста наводи да је Чех требало да напусти Хрватску након што је убио човека, па се настанио у овој земљи. Да је Чех заиста желео да побегне, вероватно не би имало смисла да се само преселио у друго село.
Да ли постоје и други извори који повезују порекло Словена са Балканом? Да! Вероватно најпознатији од свих словенских средњевековних текстова, „Несторов летопис“ који је написан у првом кварталу XII века, 200 година пре Далимилове хронике. Нестор наводи да је порекло свих Словена са Балкана, одакле их је избацила римска војска. Ево шта каже:
„Кроз дуги период Словени су се насељавали поред Дунава, где данас леже мађарске и бугарске земље… Они који су населили поред реке Мораве назвали су се Моравцима, а остали Чесима. Међу њима су били и Бели Хрвати, Срби и Карантанци. Када су Власи (*Романи) напали Дунавске Словене, населили се међу њима и чинили насиље, преселили су се поред Вистуле и тамо се назвали Љасима. Од ових Љаха, неки су се назвали Пољацима, неки Љутићима, неки Мазовјанима, а неки Поморанима. Одређени Словени су се населили на Дњепар где су се звали Пољанима. Такође су се звали Древљанима јер су живели у шуми. Неки између Припета и Двине звали су се Дреговићима. Остала племена поред Двине су се звала Полотима, јер си живела пород мањег потока Полота, који је утицао у Двину… Словени на Иљменском језеру били су познати по карактеристичним именима. Изградили су град који су назвали Новгород. Опет, они који су домове подизали уз реку Десну, Сем и Сулу, звали су се Северанима. Тако се словенски народ поделио…”
Врло је занимљиво знати да је у средњем веку ово било широко раширено уверење да су сви Словени пореклом са Балкана и да су Срби били једно од најстаријих племена, наводи на крају аутор.
https://cogniarchae.wordpress.com/2015/1...-of-babel/
http://web.archive.org/web/2007080409191...alimil.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicle_of_Dalimil
Ко је горорио нешто од Ирске?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=363McYEHMuA
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